Testing combinations for GL10CR

Hear ye, Hear ye! It has been declared by the noble king SAINTSMYTHE that a great doomsday is soon coming! All characters are to be nuked, and out of their ashes will rise new warriors! They will have all sorts of new skills and abilities that would make you shake in your boots! But alas, it makes the noble king quake as well, for they are completely untested and may end up being overpowered and require the ever feared NERF!
That, is where we, the loyal subjects, come in! We can help our great and glorious king by doing something we do best: break stuff.

In this thread, you will essentially create a new level 10 character following the new possibilities for Traits, Skills, and Special Attacks. You pick one trait and one skill that can be pumped up to *(3) then decide if you want one more trait, one more skill that can be pumped to *(5), or one special attack that can be pumped to *(5). ((Note, the special attack will not have any drawbacks applied, but is only able to be used when unsealing your zanpatukou. In fact, it has to be used when unsealing your sword, and can only be used again if your reseal the sword first.))
Then, that character you create with all of their stats and skills/traits/whatever rolls whatever dice they need for one round of a basic attack, and/or an activation of the special attack. (Assume the zanpatukou is unsealed) The opponent will be four different dummies, one with stats of A:10,E:10,M:10; one with stats of A:20,E:5,M:5; one with stats of A:5,E:20,M:5; and finally (you guessed it) one with A:5,E:5,M:20. While no character will truly end up like this, this will be a good approximation for a fully balanced, an attack based, a defense based, and a mind/kidou based character. The dummies rolls will always be 3's for att and def dice and 0's for sense/mind dice. Your roll and attack will be applied to all dummies, and someone will calculate everything that would've happened.

This will be a great way to simulate combination and find out which ones are dangerously overpowered and the reverse, so don't only try for the big messed up combos, try everything. (And if you are worried about the exact combination you want being revealed, there will most likely be no more PvP fighting after the Tournament)

Oh and one last thing, the lists of traits, skills, and special attacks are in beta, expect changes between now and the 'final list'.

I'll go first as an example. We'll use a character I call Mr. Wall.
He will have the combination of Trait TANKING, Skill STONE WALL at level 3, and other Skill TOUGHNESS at level 1.

Chiken Kazenosei carried out 3 launched of one Attack :

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Chiken Kazenosei carried out 6 launched of one Defense :

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Chiken Kazenosei carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Now, we'll only look at the def of this character, since that is the focus of this combination.
Rounded dummy (Dummy A) would not cause a scratch due to the fact that TANKING and TOUGHNESS make the base def for Mr. Wall so high. This is the same for Defense dummy (Dummy C) and Kidou dummy (Dummy D) if both used basic attacks.
Attack dummy (Dummy B)'s attack stat would have to be higher than Mr.Wall by 6 to cause one wound with those dice, and with TANKING and TOUGHNESS that would be unlikely unless Dummy B has the attack focused counterpart.
Now, it is worth pointing out, however, that kidou would be most likely quite effective against Mr.Wall since it is based on Mr.Wall's effective mind.

Overall, Mr.Wall would dominate a balanced player, a defensive character, and a mind character if they used basic attacks, with the attack character needing to be super powerful to topple the towering defense of Mr.Wall. However, he is susceptible to kidou, so he is not all super powered.

Str- 18
End- 4
Mnd- 16
Stealth
Opportunity - 1
Agility
hp - 48

Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Attack :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Defense :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 1 launched of one Special d4 :

Rounded Dummy - 18 atk, 18 def, 10 mind, Stealth and opportunity in effect, 15 def instead of 18. 17 damage to rounded dummy. 0 damage from rounded dummy.

Defense Dummy - 14 atk, 29 def, 5 mind. Stealth and opportunity in effect, 26 def instead of 29. 6 damage to defense dummy, 0 damage from defense dummy.

Attack Dummy - 29 attack, 14 def, 5 mind. Stealth and opportunity in effect, 11 def instead of 14. 21 damage to attack dummy, 5 damage from attack dummy.

Mind dummy - 14 atk, 14 def, 20 mind. Stealth and opportunity not in effect. 18 damage to mind dummy, 0 damage from mind dummy.

Boo its pretty OP D:

Here's the counterpart to Mr.Wall, Mr.Blade.
He will have trait BRUTE FORCE, Skill SHARP BLADE at level three, and skill FIERCE at level one.

Chiken Kazenosei carried out 6 launched of one Attack :

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Chiken Kazenosei carried out 3 launched of one Defense :

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Chiken Kazenosei carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Like I did for Mr.Wall, I'll only focus of the attack for Mr.Blade.
Dummy A would receive 6 wounds from the dice alone, along with the difference in attack stat of Mr.Blade vs the def stat of Dummy A. With BRUTE FORCE and FIERCE, that number is sure be quite large and cause massive damage. This is the result same for Dummy B and Dummy D along with 5 more wounds than Dummy A received.
Dummy C, is in the same boat as the other dummies with 6 wounds from the dice plus Dummy C's END stat minus Mr.Blade's ATT stat. While Dummy C will have a higher END stat than the others, it'll be most likely not enough to stop Mr.Blade unless Dummy C was really Mr.Wall.
The weakness of this arrangement is that the DEF of this character is sure to be low, making them a glass cannon.

Str-18
End-12
Mnd-6
Precision
Sharp Blade - 1
Special #1- 3
hp - 60

Matsuura Ryou carried out 4 launched of one Attack :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Defense :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Test Build (pre-release)-
Effective Atk - 31
Effective Def - 23
Effective Mind - 7

Balanced Dummy -
Effective Atk - 18
Effective Def- 18
Effective Mind - 10

Attack Dummy-
Effective Atk - 29
Effective Def - 14
Effective Mind - 5

Defense Dummy-
Effective Atk - 14
Effective Def - 29
Effective Mind - 5

Mind Dummy-
Effective Atk - 14
Effective Def - 14
Effective Mind - 20

Results(basic attacks):
Balanced Dummy-
Damage taken- 13
Damage dealt- 0

Attack Dummy-
Damage Taken- 17
Damage dealt- 6

Defense Dummy-
Damage Taken- 2
Damage dealt- 0

Mind Dummy-
Damage Taken- 17
Damage dealt- 0


Conclusion: Damnit I made another Op...

Str-4
End-14
Mnd-23
Intelligence
Distracting- 3
Two-faced
hp - 102

Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Attack :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Defense :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Matsuura Ryou carried out 3 launched of one Special d6 :

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Test Build (Pre-release):
Effective atk- 15
Effective def- 26
Effective mind- 25

Test Build (Post-release):
Effective atk- 34
Effective def- 26
Effective mind - 8

Balanced dummy-
Effective Atk- 10
Effective Def- 10
Effective mind- 10

Attack Dummy-
Effective Atk- 21
Effective def- 6
effective mind- 5

Defense Dummy-
Effective atk- 6
Effective def- 21
effective mind- 5

Mind dummy-
effective atk- 6
effective def- 6
effective mind- 20

results: oh my god why do I keep making OP builds this isn't even fair ._. also distracting should prolly be nerfed.

Shouldn't you be test-fighting against each other? Fighting with dummies doesn't seem to take into account the fact that our opponents will have traits and skills as well. And shouldn't you be having your "Mind" dummy casting kidou spells rather than attacking?

The second build isn't overpowered, because a character with Stealth or a Kidou user would annihilate it. In the third build, your HP would drop into the bin as soon as you used Two-Faced, and again you'd leave yourself wide open to a Stealth or Kidou user.

Agility, though, seems like it leaves a character with no weaknesses, since the character is strong against both kidou and physical attacks. I'd say Agility needs to be lowered in power more than Distracting does.

You'd be right and wrong. Sure a kidou or stealth user can put a nice dent into build #2, but build #2 is doing just as much without wasting hp to cast spells, and it has an end all technique that would rip right through a kidou user.

on Build #3, not quite. Two-faced is per turn only and doesn't affect hp as far as i know which also helps to prevent a stealth or kidou user from doing anything.

Agility is only OP in certain builds, i.e mind focused chars with no kidou. If you're busy getting kidou and leveling it, your mind isn't going to be super high, it'll be about on average with a standard characters endurance. In the cases its op, one could argue an overly high end stat is as well.

You're also mistaken on your first point, as Saint's already stated, there won't be much to any pvp once the tourney is over and this reset comes into effect, we'll be fighting hollows again, in which case hollows dont tend to be mind user anways and don't seem to have traits or skills. Considering those two facts, all 3 builds are extremely OP, especially the stealth one as it is purely abusive to anyone with low mind.

And you assume that Hollows aren't getting a GL10CR boost too?

I'm kind of thinking more in WoW terms now rather than DnD terms when it comes to random encounters. So... yeah, probably either you'll get swarmed or you'll have to deal with one Ultrabad Mother.

Oh I don't doubt it, I'm just saying, trying to test them in a pvp situation is kinda moot, much like in WoW. PvE and PvP are two completely different ballparks, what works in one doesn't necessarily work in the other.

Matsuura Ryou wrote:

Agility is only OP in certain builds, i.e mind focused chars with no kidou. If you're busy getting kidou and leveling it, your mind isn't going to be super high, it'll be about on average with a standard characters endurance. In the cases its op, one could argue an overly high end stat is as well.

I have to agree with this, specially because without END, an agility user has an extremely low HP, so while they would be hard to hit, when they are, it would hurt a lot, it would also mean that they can't afford to use much kidou due to their low HP. Also, putting points into END while having agility only serves to give HP, but doesn't add any benefits to the player, because the function of END is replaced by MIND, so there is actually some several disadvantages and weak points to agility.

Except that MIND raises HP too, and while it's true that your HP won't be as high as if you were boosting your END, you're still effectively both raising two stats with one point and covering your weaknesses against both kidou and physical strikes. It doesn't matter how low your HP is, you'll still never get hit.

I'm also guessing that both of you have Agility right now.

Uh...

Considering how END raises 4 points of HP, and MIND only raises two, we are talking of quite a difference between HP stats between someone that uses END and someone that raises it's HP entirely with the MIND stat. And you'd be wrong about the never getting hit statement, since those who would raise any other stat would have to divide their score between that and MIND, so while high, it wouldn't be high enough to make you invincible. And if you put all or most of your points in MIND, then your offense would rely entirely on kidou, which again, would be disadvantageous with the very low HP.

Matsuura Ryou wrote:

Agility is only OP in certain builds, i.e mind focused chars with no kidou. If you're busy getting kidou and leveling it, your mind isn't going to be super high, it'll be about on average with a standard characters endurance. In the cases its op, one could argue an overly high end stat is as well.

How about instead we just create the Battle Mage from Hell?

Let's see. At Level 10, a person has 38 points to spend. Let's pick Agility as our trait, Chakra as our Skill, and then Magic Force for our Shikai. We'll pump 1 point into Chakra, 2 into learning White Lightning and Restore, and 2 into our Shikai. That leaves us with 33 points left. Let's do this:

Str: 1 (4 with Shikai)
End: 1 (4 with Shikai)
Mind: 31 (34 with Shikai)
HP: 66/66

Trait: Agility
Skill: Chakra Lv. 2
Shikai Trait: Magic Force Lv. 3
Spells:
White Lightning 3d8 (from Chakra) + 3d6 (from Magic Force)
Restore 3d6 (from Chakra) + 3d6 (from Magic Force)

With Shikai released, this character's White Lightning will do a minimum of 17 damage, and that is only in the extraordinarily unlikely event that all mind dice come up -2 and all White Lightning and Magic Force dice come up 1. More often, with an average dice roll of 12 for White Lightning, 10 for Magic Force, and 0 for Mind, you'll be doing closer to 39 damage per turn.

But what about the low HP? The low HP (which really isn't that low, there are plenty of characters with less than 66 HP) isn't a liability at all, even when casting the 4 HP-cost White Lightning every turn, since this character can cast Restore for, on average, 20 HP every four turns or so to nullify the HP cost.

But what about taking damage? Let's start with Kidou. High mind makes you more or less invulnerable to Kidou, as we learned from Rikiki and Sarah's match. Even with Battlecaster (which is another completely overpowered ability) the most damage Sarah could do with a White Lightning was 12, and Rikiki couldn't do any more than a piddling 3, and it's save to say that neither of them had a mind score in the 30s. You would need a mind score of 11, a fully-pumped level 3 White Lightning, and an exceedingly rare perfect roll of 24 to do a single wound to our Battle Mage. With an average 3d8 roll of 12, you'd need a mind score of over 22.

And, thanks to Agility, our Battle Mage is invulnerable to physical attacks too. Even with a critical hit of 18, you'd need an STR score of 18 or more to put a scratch on Battle Mage. With an average roll of 10 for your attack roll, and 10 for Battle Mage's defense roll, you'd need a ridiculous 35 STR to cause only one wound. Even doing an average All Out Attack with a roll of 17 or 18 wouldn't help.

So, in summary, here we have a character that is nigh-invulnerable to any sort of damage and can blast for about 40 Kidou damage almost every turn.

If we take Agility out of the mix, the character is still invulnerable to Kidou and can still cast horrifyingly damaging spells, but even a character with a modest 12 STR will bleed him for 11 wounds a turn with just average rolls. An All-Out Attack will cause about 22 or 23 wounds, enough damage to actually make the low HP into a factor.

No, Agility isn't imbalanced at all.

Its honestly like you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point I'm not going to play along with it really.

...

I kind of hope Smythe doesn't change it, because if he doesn't, I'm totally making that character.

*points to the rule change thread* It won't be nearly as powerful now.

Besides... of what use would it be for you to have that build if you can still get owned by crawling rope anyway?

See, there are rules and kidou that could end even someone like that without much effort, you just have to think outside the box.

Testing build. ( I'm quite eager to see how it turns out )

Based on new rule on standard roll.

Quote :

A character's beginning STANDARD ROLL is this:

2 ATTACK DICE
2 DEFENSE DICE
3 SENSE DICE

Maka Kasahara carried out 2 launched of one Attack :

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Maka Kasahara carried out 6 launched of one Defense :

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Maka Kasahara carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Rolling for Strength dummy.

Maka Kasahara carried out 3 launched of one Attack :

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Maka Kasahara carried out 2 launched of one Defense :

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Maka Kasahara carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Rolling for post release Strength Dummy

Maka Kasahara carried out 4 launched of one Attack :

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Maka Kasahara carried out 3 launched of one Defense :

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Maka Kasahara carried out 3 launched of one Sense :

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Ignore the above posts. I can't read for shit.